Sarinah Asselas nous parle de l'immigration francophone en Ontario ! Elle nous raconte son parcours d'immigration en Ontario, elle nous parle des défis et des enjeux qu'elle a rencontré.
Sarinah Asselas a eu l'envie de s’installer au Canada lors d’un voyage touristique il y a dix ans. En tant que française, elle a bénéficié d’un dispositif entre le Canada et la France qui permet aux citoyens des deux pays d’obtenir des permis de travail temporaire d’une durée de 2 ans.
Elle a choisi l’Ontario comme destination au Canada pour sa réputation en matière de bilinguisme. Sarinah s’est très vite impliquée dans la francophonie ontarienne et souhaite s’installer dans la province de façon plus durable, avec comme première étape décrocher une résidence permanente avant la fin de son permis.
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00:00:00
Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Camille Sigouin, co-host of the podcast
00:00:06
Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Roy, the other co-host of the podcast. Thank you everyone for connecting and welcome to the first official AFO podcast called FO on s'parle.
00:00:16
Speaker 1: On this podcast we have discussions with influential people and accessible models from different areas of the Ontario Francophonie. This first season is funded by ACFO Ottawa's bilingual Ottawa program. This micro-grants program supports the community in creating new bilingualism projects.
00:00:35
Speaker 2: Today, we spoke to Sarinah Asselas. Sarinah came to talk to us about francophone immigration in Ontario. She shared these stories and experiences with us. I think I realized that I really have little education about the immigration system in Canada.
00:00:53
Speaker 3: She spoke to us about the challenges, the stakes, the shock to her system. She explains to us why she decided to move? It was really inspiring and I find her very brave. I can't wait to share our conversation with you.
00:01:23
Speaker 1: Hello? How is it going?
00:01:27
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us today on episode 8 of the AFO podcast.
00:01:33
Speaker 2: Sarinah, today we need to talk about francophone immigration to Ontario.
00:01:39
Speaker 1: Tell us a bit about yourself, your background, your experiences and your expertise.
00:01:45
Speaker 2: So, I'm Sarinah Asselas. I have various experiences in the Community industry and in international cooperation. I have two masters in health engineering and public administration, with a specialty in risk and crisis management. I'm French.
00:02:17
Speaker 3: If there was something in your life that you are very proud of, what is it?
00:02:31
Speaker 2: Frankly, that's a super tough question, professionally speaking. I really did have little dreams here and there. For example, I founded a crowdfunding platform. I was a trainer and director of a community organization that sets up a complementary local currency. I was an entrepreneur, I traveled for work and not so that I did not work. I really have, I think maybe I will say my ability to keep dreaming and to achieve these different dreams, and even more so being a mother because I am a mother of a little girl. I really never want to stop dreaming, I have never dreamed so much, as much accomplished as since I was a mother. And then, for me, it's really an example that I must give to my daughter so that she too can never put her life in question. For X reasons.
00:03:33
Speaker 3: When you said you were an entrepreneur. What was your business?
00:03:37
Speaker 2: I was a consultant, that I am a certified coach, so I provided support for companies and individuals on various subjects. For example, I did media training and other small jobs, team coaching on remote sites, a bit in the forest.
00:03:55
Speaker 1: Really nice period in my life.
00:04:08
Speaker 1: What is your country of origin?
00:04:11
Speaker 1: I am from Guyana. It's a French overseas department. It's in South America, just above Brazil, so it's a little bit of France in South America.
00:04:24
Speaker 3: What made you decide to move to Canada, to Ontario specifically, but to Canada in general?
00:04:39
Speaker 2: When I discovered Canada, when I was I think about 20 years old with a friend and I had gone on a trip to North America. We had traveled from New York to Montreal and then it was super cool. I was like Oh great, it's cosmopolitan. I had met lots of people from all over the world. It was really super enriching. It was truly a vacation of freedom. We accomplished a lot of dreams. We saw Whitney Houston in concert in Central Park, it was really kind of crazy like Oh, there are too many stories about this trip.
00:05:15
Speaker 2: We approached Witney in an unexpected way and her bodyguard chased us, then we hoped in the train. I felt I was going to die. And then my friend, she touched her.
00:05:30
Speaker 3: I thought I was going to end up in jail talking about it in New York, USA.
00:05:36
Speaker 2: We barely spoke English at the time. And then, it was really super weird because there was a queue of several days to see her at the concert. Because it was free. It was Good Morning America. And then when I arrived, like, the day of the shoot. There was a reporter asking questions in the crowd and I told my girlfriend let's go in now. Me, I see Whitney today and we will say that we do not understand, I speak only French, I do not understand. The two of us entered the field of the concert, while the two people who had been waiting for two days could not return.
00:06:18
Speaker 2: But honestly it was the experience of a lifetime.
00:06:33
Speaker 2: Anyway, I had taken my plane ticket to Paris, New York, Montreal, Paris, so I had to get to Canada. And then, it was super cool, Canada too. The people were so nice for an amazing life. Bilingualism had marked me a lot because we saw arriving with my suitcase. And then I was told in French, can I help? I really thought it was super cool. Then the time passed, but the idea of coming to live in Canada never really left me and I woke up one morning in January 2019, telling myself by the way, Canada. And then I tested, here I am.
00:07:11
Speaker 1: I really thought you were here longer.
00:07:17
Speaker 2: I have been here since the end of August 2019, so in January, I started my procedure with a temporary permit because there is an agreement between France and Canada.
00:07:29
Speaker 2: And then, I arrived in August, the time to put everything in place.
00:07:37
Speaker 1: But why in Ontario?
00:07:39
Speaker 1: I definitely wanted to come to a bilingual area. Montreal is bilingual, but still really lives in French. Then I really really wanted to have this double linguistic influence, especially for my daughter. So I knew straight away that I was going to come to Ontario. I was a little big covered because it seems the temperature is great. But basically, I had to choose between Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa and Ottawa had this reputation of being quite quiet, family, super bilingual, that I told myself that this is what I needed for that moment of my life.
00:08:32
Speaker 1: I'm still waiting for my permanent residence.
00:08:39
Speaker 2: What are the big challenges in the process?
00:08:43
Speaker 1: There are so many. Super hard to say. The process itself is one of the processes, I thought it would be simpler thanks to the agreements between France and Canada. And then, it's super hard. You really live in uncertainty. Because I was able to come before having a permanent residence in work permit. And then, it's a double-edged sword because you're there to access it a little easier. We're going to say when we have the chance because it's a draw.
00:09:18
Speaker 2: I had no idea that had been drawn.
00:09:23
Speaker 1: In fact, it's a permit called Working Holidays, which allows French people to come to Canada for up to 2 years to work or to travel. And then, it's a draw and for the record, I tried three years in a row. And then I was never drawn and I was drawn the fourth time. You have to re-register every year. And then just wait until you're drawn. No way to influence the draw so much. Why this stress there? In the end, 4 years later, you are one of the people who were drawn by lot. But afterwards, if you want to stay longer, you have to put yourself in permanent residence. And then that is something else again. With all the documents you need to collect. You have to prove that you can afford to stay in Canada and live in Canada. I just had my medical check-up and then I learned that if you were diabetic, it was going to be complicated. It’s borderline. A return to square one with diabetes. In fact, it represents a burden on Canadian society. I read it and I read and I read about Canadian immigration. And then that, I just found out and you do blood tests and stuff. I rely on immigration doctors. But it's like it's stress from start to finish. And you just hope there's nothing going to go wrong. But as I say, I have a super simple course because I took the language test, I recognized diplomas, etc. But there are people who are doctors in their country and then who arrive here and who are taxi drivers. Seriously. We need medical staff. So I'm not saying that we have to recognize doctors from all countries, but maybe work upstream. Establish partnerships between universities in Canada and universities in countries where we know that there is a large influx of immigration. Finally, there are things you can do to make it easier. Especially since Canada does a lot of prospecting abroad to attract immigrants. So, since we're doing that, we might as well do it all the way and not sell things to people in forums or shows. And then, when they arrive here, when they arrive in Paris, they will never have the same quality of life. And then that is a real shame.
00:12:16
Speaker 1: It must be so intimidating moving here and having to do another 8 years of schooling to get a degree you already have.
00:12:53
Speaker 1: Then there are financial questions afterwards for these people. Often times they tell themselves a child is going to have a better life. So, it doesn't matter. I go there and I sacrifice for my child. I sacrifice myself. Then my child will have a better life. The thing is, I, as a mom, for example, have a little black girl who has been in Canada for two years. She is already really super Canadian in her habits, culturally speaking. And then, all her life, people will ask her where she comes from, at least, as people ask me. And then that is also the reality of immigration to Canada. We assume that there are no blacks in Canada. And then, it's wrong. I did my research. And then there are black Canadians who have lived here for 500 years because at the time of slavery, they were already there.
00:13:47
Speaker 2: And then these people, they have no other point of attachment as a country than Canada. I have the impression that we are not studying that here, because it is like a hidden phenomenon. But yes, clearly there is an identity question. I think that is really something that Canada has to address in one way or another with respect to immigration.
00:14:14
Speaker 3: I have one last question on this topic. Do you think there is a difference between someone who is an immigrant from England or Germany which is not a visible minority?
00:14:41
Speaker 2: Completely this person, unless they have a special accent whatever, we're not going to address them like a stranger. We're just going to assume that this person is Canadian and that's it. I have an acquaintance who spoke to me about immigration. And she's in a mixed couple. But it is she who is white. And then she told me the immigration process had been very easy.
00:15:14
Speaker 2: It's hard to say, but we had a super easy journey because no one thought I was immigrating. We didn't think it was a fake marriage because I'm white and European. And then that is also a reality. But afterwards, I am not saying that Canada is the worst country. I have not done other immigration processes elsewhere. And then in France, it must be super difficult. I just don't know, but I certainly find that a bit of a shame for a country that is also built on immigration. To send people back to where they came from then never got done badly. Because in general, frankly, Canadians are so caring and polite. And all that. But there is this kind of curiosity. Oh where are you from? And then there are people who, because their parents were born in Canada and they experienced it, then they went to their parents' country on vacation twice in their city, say they are Canadian. And then the question is that, when is it? When do I consider that I feel the feeling of belonging, it is more important than that.
00:16:40
Speaker 1: But with all these pitfalls, and the challenges, what is your greatest high light?
00:16:50
Speaker 1: Like I said, people, maybe i'm in a cocoon, but honestly I've met such great people. Since I have been there, I have dealt with Covid which has got in the way. I met almost only work colleagues. I haven't really had the opportunity to meet people outside since we've been a bit isolated for months. And then my co-worker from my old job is awesome. When they tell you if there's something I can do for you, we'll help you. These are not empty words. It is true. It's not just out of politeness. Then I had ten thousand examples of solidarity like that. Me, my old boss, is one of my best friends. It's my family here. And then, I love it. I spend time with her and her children. It's like I've been greeted from day one, day one. Really, that's what helps you hang on, no matter what the challenges. You know what? A bit like those taxi drivers who give up their lives. You say OK, my daughter is going to have a great life here because she is going to be positive.
00:18:04
Speaker 1: Has COVID had an impact on immigration processes?
00:18:27
Speaker 1: Me, I arrived at the moment, there is hardly anyone who arrives with this permit there. He announced that he had to start the draw again. But I'm not quite sure what happens after. Attract people for continuous permanent residence. It also means that as a resident, you are a bit isolated. Because I had to travel outside the country. Besides, I'm not telling you about the stress level. You really had to be super motivated, which was my case. But the stress level, the documents. I was asked for my daughter's birth certificate to make sure she has the right to come home with me.
00:19:15
Speaker 3: You mentioned that it was complicated to come back to Canada after your trip because according to them your daughter did not necessarily have a reason to come back but you with your work visa you were correct.
00:19:39
Speaker 1: Right . Her license is linked to mine. And then Canada said OK. Workers who can prove who live in the country and still have an employer can return. So I had proof of my job application. I had proof that I am settled and that I live somewhere. But my daughter didn't have that. She does not work. So, suddenly, I had to ask for permission to bring her back. And then, I was so scared. Because the reality is that if she was refused to come back. Well, I wasn't coming back. Even for a temporary period. So it was a lot of stress. I was really motivated to go back, but was super relieved to come back. But for sure there is a lot of stress. Everyone was there for me when I returned. It ended up going well, but of course I have nothing more to say than the stress it represents. And then my family cannot come and see me, for example because as long as I am not a permanent resident, I am not allowed to have visitors since the borders are closed. And then hey bah, it makes Christmas parties a little different from things like that, but frankly, it's OK. There, it is the whole earth which is not well at the moment. Me, my first pay in Canada, I cried. Never, really, have I ever felt so vulnerable. I knew I was going to be OK, but it was like wow! I left my life, my comfort level, my professional level to start all over again. It's part of the game, but there's a difference between knowing it and then seeing it on paper. But then it's OK. I have been extremely lucky in my career. And then I also prepared a lot for my arrival. I think it made the difference.
00:22:24
Speaker 2: Actually most of the people there are engineers and then come in and start as a barista. And then afterwards, they search. But you have to agree to start over.
00:22:53
Speaker 2: I only moved from Northern Ontario and I can't even imagine the mental, physical, emotional, spiritual impact it is to move from one country to another , to change continent because for me, just moving 8 hours from home had been extremely difficult.
00:23:42
Speaker 1: After all, it depends why you're coming. There are people who flee the war, who left living conditions that are not ideal. And all that. Me, I come from a developed country where everything is correct. We are going to say where I could still have lived until the end of my life.
00:23:59
Speaker 2: But afterwards, in my personal journey, I already had to immigrate for the first time. I'm French, but I grew up in South America until I finished high school there. And then, to go to university, I had to take the plane for 8 and a half hours, to arrive in metropolitan France, in Europe. And then my mother, she came with me. She stayed for a week, the time to buy me a bed, a fridge and things like that. And then she left. And then I was 17, then I lived really well as the keys to adult life. There, I'll be able to make decisions for myself and all that.
00:24:43
Speaker 1: But me, after that, it's already a first immigration process. A bit like you who left the North to come to Ottawa. So there was that. I learned to live like this. Which makes Canada another immigration. And then, in terms of mental health, I think that the difference that there was with my first immigration is really the fact that I came with my daughter, I arrived with a child of 2 years old and 4 suitcases. There were 3 for her. The weight of responsibilities on the shoulders, because there too, it does not work. Bah, it's back to square one. Because hey, they have to eat, drink, be healthy, safe. It was really horrible for me because I thought to myself what happens if I can't buy her a Christmas present? I cried about it. And that is what was hard because the rest. I don't know my profession. It was all okay, it was OK. Will I get there? I called my sister in France, my cousin in and then I would have said OK, there, it's not going. And then she was super worried. Then I cried, I cried, but she was there like. I don't know what to do. I don't know what Christmas present I'm going to buy for her. But I think that's the impact of seeing the numbers on paper. That hurt me because in fact I agreed to work for almost free. I worked like crazy. I do not count the number of hours per week in communications in an organization. And then I had a real job. And then I agreed to be paid something like $ 140 every two weeks. I do not know if you imagine. And then I had to pay the rent, the daycare, the food, the equipment ... but there is nothing that comes in, only things that come out. The pressure is there because you say OK, it was to have Canadian experience. Not to become a baristas, because I needed a job with standard hours and I needed a job in my field to be able to bounce back. So pay is one thing, but the job title and level, the job category was good. She was at the level of what I know what I was claiming for. And then that helps me today in the immigration process elsewhere. Afterwards, I am a fairly resilient person. I know I am also fighting to show my daughter that you can do anything in life. You can do everything as if there is no obstacle. There is no such thing as impossible. It does not exist. You will fight, you will have obstacles, you will find another strategy. And then you will do it. You will continue. Then after that, it's my way of life. It's like. I won. Me, what motivates me in life is really to help people to flourish, to keep their freedom to act, to think, to dream, to really say that I will not leave an external condition to my environment, my finances, my origins get in my way. It just does the thing that makes me fight even more.
00:29:15
Speaker 1: What advice would you give to someone who wants to get started in this process?
00:29:22
Speaker 1: Learn, read a lot about Canadian immigration. Really? Each case has its particularities. So you really have to learn a lot. Even if you go through an immigration lawyer. Honestly, educate yourself so you don't fall into traps. I don't know if it's companies or if it's individuals calling people who live abroad, telling them if you give me so much money, I'll bring you to Canada. There are people who fall into the trap. I have read quite a few articles on this. There are a lot of scams. The government will never phone you, never. And then that, you have to know that if you receive a letter from the government they will write to you in your mail box to tell you will look in your space on the site, you have received a message. Like you're never gonna get an email, never gonna get a call, never gonna get a live text from the government.
00:30:35
Speaker 2: There are people who lose their life savings like this.
00:30:38
Speaker 1: So really a lot of information. And then, the more you arrive as a qualified person, the more chances you will have to have a good life. And then, I think there are also solidarity networks. I found it among my work colleagues, but sometimes there are community organizations that help, that give advice. I think I never really used this type of service because I didn't have the reflex in my life before to use this kind of service. But I think it's helpful to know that it exists and that there are people out there who are there for you because otherwise it's super hard. We have to find a network of solidarity.
00:31:21
Speaker 1: Really my parents are not here. My sister is not here. Afterwards, it's easy. If I need any help with my daughter or something, you need to have a solidarity network. To buy a car, for example. I'm not telling you about the obstacle course to buying a car because I wanted a loan. And then the banks were there. No? I'm not lending you money. You could leave overnight, then that's okay. It's just that I need a car to go to work and I was told OK, I need a Canadian to co-sign with you. I can't ask someone to co-sign on my car, it doesn't work because if there is anything, that person will be impacted and their credit, finances etc. I've talked about it here and there. I didn't ask anyone, but I was telling my story and I have a co-worker who co-signed my car. Well, if you can imagine, but it's still amazing. Like, that doesn't happen. That never happens. I don't know how I would have done without a car. So, it's like I was incredibly lucky. Then I had a lot of solidarity around me. And then, I think that surround yourself well, also share with people who have been there before or who are in the process of doing so, there are plenty of forums on the Internet, etc. To exchange concerns, questions, information. I think that makes the difference.
00:33:59
Speaker 1: I realize that because I am chatting with you now and this is an opportunity for me to take a look at what has happened in recent years. But there are solidarity networks just as a francophone in Ontario. I don't know if it's the fact of being a minority. There is real solidarity because we have the link of language. It matters a lot. I really enjoyed the contact with the Franco-Ontarian community. It's really something that binds us, in fact, the language and also, I think, because they are a minority in the country and who know what it is, to be in a minority or oppressed, or disadvantaged situation. 'one way or another.
00:34:39
Speaker 3: A big thank you Sarinah! Super nice conversation.
00:34:59
Speaker 3: I've learned a lot so far. Big thanks.
00:35:04
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. And then, it was really a pleasure and a great opportunity to rethink all that. It is true that time is passing. Then you don't realize what it's like to immigrate to a foreign country. And then, if I can help people just by my journey to say that it is possible, that it will be fine. Even if there are times when it is super hard, it is a pleasure sometimes claiming to be accessible models for this subject.
00:35:37
Speaker 1: If people want to follow you on social media where can they find you?
00:35:43
Speaker 1: On Instagram!
00:35:52
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to follow AFO's social media for future episodes at @monassemblee on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube. Then, in the next episode, we will talk about the migration from northern Ontario to western Ontario with a guest, whom you know very well, so see you soon and thank you.
00:36:20
Speaker 1: Thank you again.